KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

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hatsan125sniper
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KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by hatsan125sniper » 31 Jul 2018, 11:09

I'm new to all the night vision stuff so first sorry if this is a stupid question . I was trying to ask this question on the Night vision uk facebook page and my questions were deleted and they took away the ability to make any more comments . So something weird is going on with that question . They want a extra 70 pounds for the kcp-e700 . Before they deleted some one commented that the sony was made in china and the kcp was made in S Korea. I typed this into the search and could not find a comparison . I think they put a 16mm lens on both cameras . That's about all I know . Does anyone have any idea why I would be silenced my nv uk for this question ?

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jdk1
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Re: KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by jdk1 » 31 Jul 2018, 12:31

I don't know for sure but its possible that they use the cheaper Effio camera in the builds they sell so they may not want people saying how much better the KPC is. (This is purely a guess as I know very little about that site)

hatsan125sniper
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Re: KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by hatsan125sniper » 31 Jul 2018, 12:50

Can you tell me what the differences are between the 2 cameras

phoenix
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Re: KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by phoenix » 31 Jul 2018, 12:55

I don't know why they shut you up, but this is the real story:
Sony manufacture the sensors (the bit that converts light to electrical signals) and the processing chips that take the electrical signals, process them in all sorts of clever ways before passing them to a screen where you can see what the sensor is looking at.
The word EFFIO is a Sony trademark for the processing chips and there are various versions of EFFIO chips, EFFIO A and EFFIO E being the most common.
700TVL (TVL = television lines) is a measure of how sharp the image is and relates to the performance of the sensor.
The higher the number, the sharper the image - but remember we're not talking HD here- nothing near it.
There are loads of cameras on E bay claiming to be to have 700TVL sensors and Effio E processing chips - and most of them do actually contain these parts.
However, the sensors and processing chips that come off the production line in the Sony factory are not all identical in performance - some are better than others.
Each chip is tested and graded according to it's performance. Those with the highest performance are sold for a higher price than those with lower levels of performance.
So, to get to the point, a cheap Sony Effio-E 700TVL camera from E bay may well contain a 700TVL sensor and a set of Effio E processing chips, but the likliehood is that they will not be the top grade chips.
On the other hand, a KPC-E700 made by KT&C in Korea will contain the top grade sensor and Effio chips and the fact that it does contains these top grade chips is reflected in the higher price.
At the end of the day, you have to make a choice between a cheap camera which may or may not work well or a more expensive camera that's been proven to work well.
Finally, make sure that whichever camera you buy, that it has any IR blocking filter removed otherwise it won't be any use for night vision.

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

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cliveward
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Re: KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by cliveward » 31 Jul 2018, 13:47

hatsan125sniper wrote:
31 Jul 2018, 11:09
Does anyone have any idea why I would be silenced my nv uk for this question ?
I've found that most of Facebook is just a giant advert. Either groups that are being presented as a community but are in fact one companies 'shop window' so the feed is edited accordingly, as you have found out.

To other groups which are just filled with obvious spam and are a free for all.

Right down to the more decent groups that are still infiltrated by promotional staff and shills, turning those decent groups, again into a load of unregulated 'stealth' advertising. :roll:

If you want some sensible discussion and help on building a system, then this is the place to find it; as you have found by Bruce's answer. :thumbup:

Welcome to the forum by the way. :D


Cheers





Clive

hatsan125sniper
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Re: KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by hatsan125sniper » 31 Jul 2018, 15:10

Thank you to all that answered . That was a great answer . So now I know . I was looking at this bundle and I see they have a ad here https://www.sure24.co.uk/kpc-e700-tft-c ... undle.html . What do you all think about this kit ? I still need a way to mount the screen to the scope and a way to mount the camera to the back of the scope and I need a torch and a way to hold the torch on a 30mm scope tube . Anyone what to head me in the right direction ? Is the kpc still a good camera with the 16mm lens to get or is there something better I should be looking at ?

phoenix
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Re: KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by phoenix » 31 Jul 2018, 16:34

One of our forum members makes everything you need
Just check out "some bloke" on this forum http://photobucket.com/gallery/user/Dav ... anBn/?ref=
This is an excellent piece of kit and uses a genuine KPC E700 camera.
The only thing you'll need to supply are a couple of 18650 lithium ion batteries.

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

hatsan125sniper
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Re: KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by hatsan125sniper » 31 Jul 2018, 19:06

Thanks Bruce I will look into that kit . Do you know of any videos that show the kpc-e700 camera behind the scope so I can see what it looks like. If the kpc-e700 the camera to get ? I mean how does in rank in nv cameras for behind the scope use . I just picked these 2 because that was the 2 they offered .

phoenix
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Re: KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by phoenix » 31 Jul 2018, 20:33

The KPC E-700 is generally regarded as the best camera for behind the scope NV (what we call a rear add-on)
The only camera which is noticeably better would be the Watec 910HX but it is much larger and about 8 times more expensive.
Stick with the KPC E 700 and you won't go wrong.
You tube videos of night vision equipment are notoriously poor quality and never really show what the user sees when using the equipment.
Also, some Youtube video are shot with huge amounts of IR light to make the image look better than it would be if normal amounts of IR were used.
Bear in mind that the scope you plan to put the camera behind plays a huge part in how well the whole thing will work.
Use the wrong scope and it doesn't matter which camera you use, the image will still be crap.
The scope you use, needs to have some sort of focus control, either adjustable objective (AO) or side focus (SF) and they must be able to focus down to less than 20 yards (10 yards if possible)
This is because IR light doesn't focus at the same place within the scope as daylight, so unless you have some sort of focus control, then either the reticle or the image will be out of focus.
All modern scopes have coatings on their lenses, and some of the most expensive scopes (Swarovski, Zeiss, S&B) have coatings that don't allow IR to pass through the scope very well, making these scopes a poor choice for a rear add-on.
Also, it's been found that, for some reason, Vortex scopes don't work well with rear add-ons and Nightforce is not wonderful either
The best choices are Sightron (all the S Tac series), Bushnell elites, most Hawk scopes, Delta titanium
There also needs to be enough space on the eyebell of the scope to clamp the add-on in place without interference from any illuminated reticle controls.
OK, what we have been talking about up to now has been a rear add-on where the camera is mounted behind the scope in the position where your eye would be for normal daytime shooting and where you view the image from the camera on a small LCD screen (usually around 5") mounted on top of the scope.
There will also be an IR illuminator either integrated into the housing that holds the screen or as a separate flashlight mounted onto the scope or on the rifle.
These types of add-ons are the least expensive NV kit you can get and they can work very well.
They're where I started in NV and I shot plenty of foxes with those that I built.
The big downside with them is that the rifle cannot be mounted in the normal way and the glow from the screen can be a give away at night.
The next step up is a rear add-on which integrates the camera with a small near eye display so that the rifle can be mounted normally.
I mention this because there is a new product on the market which, for the price, is absolutely fantastic value for money and has exceptional performance.
I don't know if anyone in the USA is selling them but they are available in the UK, with the best deal available here http://www.customriflescopes.com/shop.h ... y=15737046
You can also find the on AliExpress and other chinese websites as the WG760
Please understand, I have no commercial relationship with the seller, and am not trying to sell you anything but, as you are starting out in the crazy world of NV, one of these addonight devices would allow you to bypass the level of kit you are presently considering and go directly to level of pretty much the the best rear add-on available.

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

hatsan125sniper
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Re: KPC-E700 vs Sony Effio-E 700TVL

Post by hatsan125sniper » 01 Aug 2018, 19:12

Maybe I should rename the thread every thing a beginner needs to know about NV . That's some really good info and really good wording you should be a author . I hate to see all that wasted on just me .
I think you're right the view finder behind the scope is the way to go . I'm showing my age now but I still have a vcr camera that plugs into a box full size vcr tape recorder and player unit . The camera has a small screen and that's how you recorded video So I'm use to that and I like that way .

Later on in time they put the full size vcr tapes in a all in one unit where the camera was part of the unit . Then they finely came out with the mini vcr tapes vhs-c and recorders that were big palm size that had the screen inside viewfinder .
They were all black and white small screens but at the time and looking through them they were great .
I have often wondered about taking the screen unit off and connecting it to the something like the kpc camera . I wonder if that would work .

I have a vhs-c camera also . There are hundreds of those vcr-c cameras that have the tiny viewfinders in them and you can get them for just about nothing on ebay . The lens on them are probably pretty good also . Mine has a 6-60 mm 1.8 lens .
Then I got a tiny pentax optio s40 its a older one You can see how small the screen is https://youtu.be/stcmTUx8xb0 that has a 5.7 to 17.4 mm zoom so I can adjust it to where I can get ride of the scopes circle The camera is very light and is 3.51 inch or 89.2 mm wide x 1 inch or 25.9 mm thick x 2.35 inches or 59.7 mm high . The display screen on them are smaller than the scope lens in the back of my scope the screen is 24.8 mm x 31.7 mm and its color . It would fit right inside a tube and then you could put a rubber eye piece over the tube like they use in field target. I haven't taken the ir filter off the lens yet . I don't have a ir light yet .
If you got a small enough screen like whats on the back of this camera that would fit inside a tube and you added a eye piece do you think that would work .
I have a side focus scope and I added a big wheel to it, that goes down to 10 yards . I use it for field target shooting . Here is a link to the one I have http://www.sightmark.com/product.php?item=216 . I don't know how it works with nv camera behind it yet .

Has anyone done anything with the older camcorder view finders ? Can they be attached to the kpc camera ? What would be a good ir light to get ?
I have watched this video . I think he is showing how to make the tiny screen inside the eye piece . I like how he did this . Do you know how to get the pieces he has ? Is this something someone is making here on this forum ? https://youtu.be/zBkjucNVTdI
Last edited by hatsan125sniper on 01 Aug 2018, 21:27, edited 1 time in total.

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