ADDONIGHT

A discussion group for all nightvision users. Find 'Best scope for nv?' here also.
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Mini Magnum
Posts: 752
Joined: 24 Nov 2013, 00:16
Location: Durham

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by Mini Magnum » 15 Jul 2018, 23:03

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Last edited by Mini Magnum on 16 Jul 2018, 05:49, edited 1 time in total.

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Mini Magnum
Posts: 752
Joined: 24 Nov 2013, 00:16
Location: Durham

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by Mini Magnum » 15 Jul 2018, 23:05

Muskett wrote:
15 Jul 2018, 00:04
First off I've had plenty of tea and shared gossip with Clive over the years. I've spent plenty with him and think that bar some batteries, the tea and biscuits, have had no other "discount".

Sure I like his products because generally they have been very good indeed. The price is what it is, and not cheap.
I also raved about the Drone Pro. No freebees there either.

Now tell me what other products have matched or bettered the two above?

When it comes to spotters then we all know somebloke makes the best shed build spotters.
When it comes to Thermal spotters we all know who does the best minimagum price.

So do tell me what I've missed other than pointing out what I consider the best performance products done at a respectful price? I like to think I recommend products that deliver performance that is worth having. When price critical I point out what others say is best bang for bucks; I just don't own a Photon.

There have been plenty of products that aren't good value. I'm also no fan of head up displays. I've done enough home builds to know the pitfalls and whats involved.

Those who bring something good to the market I'll applaud, but for all the hype no one can convince me the XSight is any good. Not my fault that for a good while Carl and Clive had the best kit available. (Pulsar has Thermal Spotters at present and Clive the Thermal Rifle scope; just the way it is this month). I comment on two main forums as its fun, and to keep in touch with developments,

So your gripe is that I've stated the obvious?
I agree the WDV700/800 is a good unit, I have x2 myself, but there’s other rear eye display add on offerings not as well designed for sure but offering the same E700 night vision performance for half the price.

The Drone I agree also is the king of dedicated digital night vision units, i’ve not seen Clive’s Digiceptor unit to compare.

No gripe at all Muskett against Clive’s products or you.. BUT your posts are pretty predictable in favour, that’s all.... you still deserve a free WT75-3 :D

Muskett
Posts: 566
Joined: 17 Nov 2012, 12:52
Location: East Sussex Rabbit Warren

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by Muskett » 16 Jul 2018, 00:31

Now that would be all my Christmas presents in one. Think Clive might go as far a Chocolate Diigestives, rather than Rich Tea biscuits :D

Annoyingly for me my business has been on hold from a legal jam which has held me back for three years. A lot of money down the drain. But we have just signed the papers that will unjam it. Blogging has kept me sane. Sadly I seem to have become rather repetitive. But then the NV world hasn't done much bar the odd upgrade or another overhyped piece of rubbish to punt out.
Plenty of people needed a bit of help getting their kit to work correctly, as the instruction manuals aren't that great if they exist at all. I've been happy to help.

Pulsar is bringing good stuff on the Thermal front. Their Photon is good but N series really?! They should just make one very good midrange one, The SightLine, which they never put into production. An XSIght that worked!! But then their Photon and Thermal have been getting new people into the NV world which is great. Wasn't always the case but now they have some really useful suff if selective on exactly which model.

Annoying about the Drone Pro; really feel for Carl.
Will Clive's new effort be up to a true replacement? (He held of doing this as Carl was doing it so well anyhow. Think Carl held off from doing an add on??? Think thee was some gentlemanly behaviour going on even if nothing said).

2018 has seen some movement and is becoming an interesting year. Pulsar kicking it off with their upgraded Thermals.

It always annoys me when someone has been talked into buying something that really doesn't cut the mustard. We all work hard for our boys toys and high ticket priced under performance really annoys me. If I can help then I try my best to point people in the right direction. Guilty as charged with being totally biassed with things I think are good.
The other big one is the Shooting mags don't write up the stuff not advertising heavily with them. A good few NV providers don't have in their business plan a big marketing budget, so no one hears about them unless they end up on a forum like this. However, there is so much anorak flack and goberlygook its hard to know what is being recommended.
The big boys build into their product price 10% plus for marketing, 5% for agents commission, and then the retail shop mark up. Which does let the Shed build boys be able to under cut them big time. However, the shed builds are just less refined a product, though some not half bad at all now. (The WDV is in truth a Shed Build. a darn good one).
We need both because the shed build enthusiasts have forced the market pace so now there is performance and choice that is worth having and within reach of many pockets.

Anyhow, some new toys are coming along shortly. Shame the bun fight over the Adder and derivatives. Hope it settles down. There has been an on going bun fight over IR LED's and who has the better ones!!! There is probably 50p in A grade and D grade and limited supply of the higher grade ones. The Torch bodies are cheap as chips, but UK taxes and overheads, and the need to make a living means UK price are a lot higher. Thankfully as consumers we at least get real performance thanks to the competition between the few players in our UK niche market.
Its business and a tough one.

Lets hope I have a better year and have more boys toys to play with. Lets hope more boys toys come into the market. Then I might not be quite such a "stuck record player". But then I might have some work to get on with too at last. I so do need a Thermal spotter, but family comes first.

You should hear me blag on about the Skrama knife, its just my favourite blade, thinking man's golok, and I've really tried hard to get the news out I'm so impressed with it.
In truth next year I got some work at last to get on with.

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Mini Magnum
Posts: 752
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Location: Durham

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by Mini Magnum » 16 Jul 2018, 05:59

:lol: Maybe you might get a chocolate coated one

Theres a lot of options on the market at the minute...things will only get better, I'm sure...

Muskett
Posts: 566
Joined: 17 Nov 2012, 12:52
Location: East Sussex Rabbit Warren

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by Muskett » 16 Jul 2018, 08:17

If you don't mind a head up display then my local air rifle shop had a nicely put together unit for £250 mark. Not sure if that included a T20 ir torch or not, but even without your in business for less than £300.
A second hand N550 is £400 or so, GEN 2Plus units £750 or so.
The older thermal spotters that were the biz only two years ago are well marked down as upgraded models units came in lower than the ones phased out.

Sure is getting interesting.

We start hammering the rabbits in about a weeks time now that most are 3/4 grown. My patch they are everywhere. Freezer already half full. Already whacking the foxes.


Even Hobnobs would be an upgrade.

splinter
Posts: 5
Joined: 09 Jul 2018, 11:04
Location: Argyll

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by splinter » 16 Jul 2018, 09:58

I'm new to the forum and trying to learn a bit more about NV with a view to making a purchase later in the year.
Initial thoughts are that an add-on unit would best suit my requirements, so have read this thread with great interest.

Regarding new kit on the way, as mentioned above, are any details known as to what is planned?
Are there any thoughts on whether the introduction of new kit will result in reduced prices for current models which may not be discontinued?
In silly moments I dream of a thermal spotter so would be very interested in any price reduction.

Muskett
Posts: 566
Joined: 17 Nov 2012, 12:52
Location: East Sussex Rabbit Warren

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by Muskett » 16 Jul 2018, 11:34

For Rat and Rabbit ranges there are, as above, perfectly good units for the £300 mark. These are add on units, with head up displays. Some people don't mind head up displays others don't like them. There are head up display systems at various prices be they factory ones, shed build ones, and DY kits. All add on units require parallax adjustment scopes, so best side parallax down to air rifle ranges of 10 or 20m or so if you want to utilise higher magnification. There a few choice scopes that are well compatible with these ad ons to get the best picture.
Then most require a good ir torch, with various levels and prices depending on their build. The mid range ones are pretty OK already and not expensive.

A Pulsar Photom dedicated are pretty good some want to utilise more magnification than given so use a "doubler" which is basically another lens stuck on the front.

The WDV is considered one of the best and most compact add on, but its on the expensive side.

The no longer made Drone Pro MKI or II were the bees knees of the digital dedicated but big bucks. Pulsar also do a higher cost N range.

Tubed units are still popular but big bucks.

All the systems have their pros and cons.

Plenty of older units coming onto the second hand market as people either upgrade or just find night shooting is not for them. Most kit in the last two years is plenty great and savings are to be had. Buy a known good performer. Expect 1/3 off or even a tad more.
Its really is in the performance because the better performance you have the better the experience.

New Kit:
The new Adder or whatever others call it is a new all in one kit from China. There is an argument going on who has the better spec one and what price should they be. Best bit is they are both spotter and add on. They also have a rabbit range IR built in; and could be the answer to a lot of peoples needs. £359 to £550 price or something???? On par with a new Photon.

Those wanting to shoot mainly foxes need the max performance whatever the system. Top end tubes units are great but very expensive. Best Thermal scope is a tad under £4k, and if Clive does a replacement Drone its going to be towards the £2K mark.

A very goof Pulsar Thermal Spotter is £1,800!

So do your research. Make a short list of the better kit, and know the actual model number as one digit can make the difference between fine and hopeless. Some kit is very good and worth having. Poor kit is a pain and a whole lot less fun. The really iffy kit hardly wort the effort. Then look for a second hand example well looked after. Do check warranties as some are transferable and some not.

Its your cash, save up as much as you can. The better kit is whats worth having and will last. Sure its a confusing subject but get a half decent unit and its a lot of fun. Just go for a unit that been given the thumbs up.

phoenix
BRUCE ALMIGHTY
Posts: 4880
Joined: 09 May 2012, 14:40
Location: Aberdeen

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by phoenix » 16 Jul 2018, 12:49

splinter wrote:
16 Jul 2018, 09:58
I'm new to the forum and trying to learn a bit more about NV with a view to making a purchase later in the year.
Initial thoughts are that an add-on unit would best suit my requirements, so have read this thread with great interest.

Regarding new kit on the way, as mentioned above, are any details known as to what is planned?
Are there any thoughts on whether the introduction of new kit will result in reduced prices for current models which may not be discontinued?
In silly moments I dream of a thermal spotter so would be very interested in any price reduction.
Question 1 -What are you planning to shoot and at what sort of ranges?
Question 2 - How much money have you got to spend?
Have a read of this to get the basics of NV viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6297

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

splinter
Posts: 5
Joined: 09 Jul 2018, 11:04
Location: Argyll

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by splinter » 16 Jul 2018, 14:06

Thanks a lot for the replies, much appreciated & plenty food for thought.

I should have mentioned that the intended quarry is foxes. I guess that the range will be around 100 yards (150 max. certainly no further to start with).
Regarding budget, that's difficult until I compile a short list.
I did visit the forum a little before joining & it seems that a Pulsar XQ38 gets the "best value" vote in thermal spotters. If I could stretch to one of those, that would reduce what I could spend on a sight.
If I forget the thermal spotter (or opt for a cheaper model) there would be more cash available for the sight, possibly a Ward 800.
Sorry to be a bit vague, but say a total budget of £2500, but would certainly consider second-hand to keep costs down.

I definitely won't be making a purchase until later in the year.

Thanks again for the replies.

phoenix
BRUCE ALMIGHTY
Posts: 4880
Joined: 09 May 2012, 14:40
Location: Aberdeen

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by phoenix » 16 Jul 2018, 16:11

OK, that helps a lot.
Definitely get a Pulsar Helion XQ38 for spotting -I'd budget £1800-£1900 for one.
That leaves £600-£700 for something to go on a rifle and shoot with.
If you want to go for a dedicated NV scope then your budget dictates that it pretty much has to be a Yukon Photon XT or RT - although you might find a used Pulsar N970 if you're lucky. Budget for a set back scope mount unless you have a neck like a giraffe.
Don't even think about an ATN X Sight.
If you prefer an add-on and your existing scope is up to the job (can focus down to 50m or less and can cope with IR) then it's a new Warden Adder from Night Vision Store at £595 or the apparently identical Addonight from Custom Rifle Scopes for £375, or a used Ward 700/800.
For either case you'll need an external illuminator to get a good clear image of a fox at 150m.
Plenty of good illuminators available from Night Vision Store, Ludicrous Lumens, IR light builds etc for less than £100

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

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