LASER SAFETY

A discussion group for all nightvision users. Find 'Best scope for nv?' here also.
Montey
Posts: 2
Joined: 15 Mar 2015, 15:49
Location: Kent

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by Montey » 04 Nov 2016, 00:26

Bump
Any body???

User avatar
Midnight.Sun
Posts: 291
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 01:49
Location: Syria

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by Midnight.Sun » 10 Nov 2016, 21:41

Hi

Your NM800 is safer than a laser, but just like any other powerful flashlight (torch), the danger is about how much light going to enter the eye and for how long, whether visible (white or coloured) or invisible (IR = infra red) or (UV = ultra violet), especially at close distance, so looking directly at any powerful torch in your hand is wrong thing to do, of course one is aware not to do that when it comes to visible light as the eyes will react immediately and the person will close them and look away, but with invisible light the eyes/brain won't recognise much, and the person can keep looking at the pinkish emitter, which can cause burning to the sensitive retina cells in the eye, and according to the light source power and time of exposure, it can cause serious eye problems or even temporary or partial blindness in some cases, that's why lasers -having a lot more focused beam than torches- are hundreds times more dangerous.

In order of the length of the electromagnetic wave starting from shorter to longer: (UV light) is more harmful than (visible light) which is more harmful than (IR light), but in general all those kinds of light are harmful to the eye according to the amount of emitter power being used, the beam concentration (focus degree) which is created by the aspherical glass lens in front of the emitter in lasers and aspherical model torches like NM800 and T20 for example, or created by reflectors in the reflector model torches, and of course the distance between the light source and the eye, and most importantly time of exposure.

Those same factors of power, concentration, distance and time apply when the beam is being reflected on a surface like mirrors, glass, metal objects and such, the more reflective the surface the worse, also the shape of surface and the direction of light plays major role in this case.

As for more invisible IR, you can buy a 940 nm wavelength LED bin for your NM800 instead of the 850 nm one (if that's what you have inside it), but it is darker i can say, so it yields shorter viewing distance. More capable solution would be 980 nm Laser, but it is not widely available, and if it is durable and well made and has genuine emitter? The one I can recommend is ridiculously expensive, so maybe other guys in here might know a more suitable alternative.

Radagast
junior librarian
Posts: 2617
Joined: 04 Apr 2013, 10:51
Location: Sydney Australia

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by Radagast » 11 Nov 2016, 00:54

1. My dim light vision is now awful. I carry a torch at all times. I have to have a bright light over my desk to read the keyboard, the room light is not enough. Prior to playing with IR torches I had excellent night vision and could walk through the bush at night without a light.
NEVER LOOK INTO THE BEAM OF YOUR NM800 OR ANY OTHER IR TORCH TO SEE IF IT IS ON.
Use a digital device to view it.
Your eye has no blink reflex for IR, nor does the pupil contract. Think of shining a white NM800 into your eyes. Thats the energy falling on the rods and cones when you do it with IR. Just because you cannot see the energy does not mean that damage is not being done.
Its not the laser or LED label that matters, its the amount of energy impacting the eye.

2. Clive is best contacted via PM in here. He rarely returns phone calls and lets emails back up. He can provide you with a 940nm pill for your NM800, or a complete new torch. Output of the 940 is probably half of the standard NM pill, IIRC, so you will not get the same range.

User avatar
Midnight.Sun
Posts: 291
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 01:49
Location: Syria

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by Midnight.Sun » 11 Nov 2016, 02:41

Yes, I forgot to say that a second of exposure time to a powerful beam of any kind of light is enough to do some damage, so I confirm on the above warning, NEVER look into the beam of any IR torch (or into beams of torches of any kind of light), also NEVER look at any reflective object lit by IR light, like glass, mirror, .. etc. ALWAYS look through a digital NV device when it comes to IR light, and as they're mostly monocular devices, you need to make sure your free eye is closed or somehow protected from any IR rays might get reflected from any random close range obstacles.

Clive Ward is the owner of "Nightvision Store", his website is advertised in the forum (look the above ads), as said the best way to contact him is by private messaging in here, go to the forum's Advertisers Section, he will help you find the 940 nm or 980 nm illuminator you need.

P.S. Would be interested to read your feedback, what you choose, the end result clarity, how much distance it covers.

User avatar
Midnight.Sun
Posts: 291
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 01:49
Location: Syria

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by Midnight.Sun » 20 Nov 2016, 05:08

Radagast wrote:1. My dim light vision is now awful. I carry a torch at all times. I have to have a bright light over my desk to read the keyboard, the room light is not enough. Prior to playing with IR torches I had excellent night vision and could walk through the bush at night without a light.
I hear you, but it might not be only form using IR torches, all types of light beams and reflections does harm the eyes, and most probably your condition is because of normal vision degrading reasons, since you know how to handle IR lights properly.

From my experience with torches, i tell you to not underestimate white light, and to not get used to using more light than you really need, especially in your described condition of weakened vision in the dark.
So you better be using a variable brightness level torch, to use on the various ranges, and to include what is called moonlight or firefly mode for close range viewing in complete darkness without losing your dark vision adaptation. I personally also use a diffusing lens (a diffuser) (a diffusing filter) in front of the torch's lens, when working on prolong close range task, for the ease of the eyes (I highly recommend the brand that uses flip-up filters, or flood flshlights and headlamps that has no beam).
The same can be said on that desk light above the keyboard, it is better to be just bright enough to see comfortably not more, and to be defused, not a spotlight.

As I said before the visible light (the various Kelvin degrees of white light) in its pure physical nature is more harmful to the eye than an equivalent amount and shape of InfraRed light, white light is about 1.3 x times more energy condensed than IR light, but of course IR light is a lot more dangerous because of its conning invisible nature.

It all depends on the length of the electromagnetic wave of each specific array of light:

UV having shorter than 390 nm (nano meter) wavelengths, is the highest in frequency between the three light rays (meaning, it has higher number of electromagnetic waves than white and IR lights) per certain measure of given power, and thus it is by far the most dangerous of the three because in addition to the more energy it possesses it is also invisible (especially under 365 nm , to ~ 200 nm = the minimum measure of UV-C wavelength). Of course it needs to exceed a curtain amount of power to start becoming harmful to the eyes. We can easily say UV is 1.5x to 3x times more energy condensed than white light, and easily 2x to 4x times more energy condensed than IR light. It means that under the same power, pointing one (365 nm UV torch) do more effect to the material been pointed at than pointing to say two or even three (940 nm IR torches) combined, each one being the same Watt Power as the single UV torch.

While white light having a longer wavelengths (400 nm ~ 750 nm) has lower frequency (less number of electromagnetic waves) than UV light under the same amount of power, so it is less harmful to the eye than UV light, especially also because it is visible. And it also needs to exceed certain amount of power to start becoming harmful to the eyes.

Finally IR light has the longest wavelengths of the three (about 790nm ~ all the way to 1000000nm = 1000 micro meter = 1 mm = the maximum measure of IR wavelength), has the lowest frequency, which means in its pure physical nature it is the least energy condensed among the three, thus the least harmful to the eye among the three types of lights under the same amount of power. But being an invisible light makes it a dangerous one, so yes more dangerous than visible white light in that aspect. And as always it needs to exceed certain amount of power of IR light to start becoming harmful to the eyes.

IR rays exists in every living thing, from human to plant to water to stones... etc. Pretty much our entire planet, everything in it receives and emits different levels of IR ray.

Many applications of these scientific facts, for example, the use of UV light in solarium beds for skin tanning (burning), not white light, neither IR light (You can imagine the essential need to use protective eye ware).
Or many other various uses of UV light, like hardening the white dental fillings, or in sterilising water (killing living germs).

By the way, UV is a more powerful Digital NV illumination, because the more covert it is, the shorter its wavelength and the higher its frequency, which produces brighter image in the digital sensors specifid for UV. While IR is on the opposite side, the more covert it is, the longer its wavelength and the lower its frequency, which produces darker image in its digital sensors. But IR sure is a safer light, and compatible to use easily with standard digital sensors.


ATB

Midnight.Sun

User avatar
Midnight.Sun
Posts: 291
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 01:49
Location: Syria

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by Midnight.Sun » 23 Nov 2016, 03:58

Anyone familiar with Laserluchs LA980-50-PRO II, how good is it? How much distance allows to see? Is it worth the high price?

Being a 50 mW, focus-able, 980 nm IR laser.

User avatar
snoopy
Posts: 2628
Joined: 22 Jun 2012, 23:22
Location: NER NER LOL stoke on trent

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by snoopy » 04 Jul 2017, 00:44

side info.

infra rays striking a surface basicaly adjitate the molecule buy exspanding them to a point where the 'little solar system' then colapses in on it's self releasing a 'quazar' of energy, that coincidenly wacks out a load of neutrons, the very ones that the intencifiers pick up and amplyfy before burning against the phosferous (photo screen).

yu can have too much of a good thing yu know :lolno:
'who is that masked man? its the kemosabby der..the bloody injun tells you every week!'

User avatar
Midnight.Sun
Posts: 291
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 01:49
Location: Syria

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by Midnight.Sun » 04 Sep 2017, 00:00

Midnight.Sun wrote:I hear you, but it might not be only form using IR torches, all types of light beams and reflections does harm the eyes, and most probably your condition is because of normal vision degrading reasons, since you know how to handle IR lights properly.

From my experience with torches, i tell you to not underestimate white light, and to not get used to using more light than you really need, especially in your described condition of weakened vision in the dark.
So you better be using a variable brightness level torch, to use on the various ranges, and to include what is called moonlight or firefly mode for close range viewing in complete darkness without losing your dark vision adaptation. I personally also use a diffusing lens (a diffuser) (a diffusing filter) in front of the torch's lens, when working on prolong close range task, for the ease of the eyes (I highly recommend the brand that uses flip-up filters, or flood flshlights and headlamps that has no beam).
The same can be said on that desk light above the keyboard, it is better to be just bright enough to see comfortably not more, and to be defused, not a spotlight.

As I said before the visible light (the various Kelvin degrees of white light) in its pure physical nature is more harmful to the eye than an equivalent amount and shape of InfraRed light, white light is about 1.3 x times more energy condensed than IR light, but of course IR light is a lot more dangerous because of its conning invisible nature.

It all depends on the length of the electromagnetic wave of each specific array of light:

UV having shorter than 390 nm (nano meter) wavelengths, is the highest in frequency between the three light rays (meaning, it has higher number of electromagnetic waves than white and IR lights) per certain measure of given power, and thus it is by far the most dangerous of the three because in addition to the more energy it possesses it is also invisible (especially under 365 nm , to ~ 200 nm = the minimum measure of UV-C wavelength). Of course it needs to exceed a curtain amount of power to start becoming harmful to the eyes. We can easily say UV is 1.5x to 3x times more energy condensed than white light, and easily 2x to 4x times more energy condensed than IR light. It means that under the same power, pointing one (365 nm UV torch) do more effect to the material been pointed at than pointing to say two or even three (940 nm IR torches) combined, each one being the same Watt Power as the single UV torch.

While visible light having a longer wavelengths (400 nm ~ 750 nm) has lower frequency (less number of electromagnetic waves) than UV light under the same amount of power, so it is less harmful to the eye than UV light, especially also because it is visible. And it also needs to exceed certain amount of power to start becoming harmful to the eyes.

Finally IR light has the longest wavelengths of the three (about 790nm ~ all the way to 1000000nm = 1000 micro meter = 1 mm = the maximum measure of IR wavelength), has the lowest frequency, which means in its pure physical nature it is the least energy condensed among the three, thus the least harmful to the eye among the three types of lights under the same amount of power. But being an invisible light makes it a dangerous one, so yes more dangerous than visible white light in that aspect. And as always it needs to exceed certain amount of power of IR light to start becoming harmful to the eyes.

IR rays exists in every living thing, from human to plant to water to stones... etc. Pretty much our entire planet, everything in it receives and emits different levels of IR ray.

Many applications of these scientific facts, for example, the use of UV light in solarium beds for skin tanning (burning), not white light, neither IR light (You can imagine the essential need to use protective eye ware).
Or many other various uses of UV light, like hardening the white dental fillings, or in sterilising water (killing living germs).

By the way, UV is a more powerful Digital NV illumination, because the more covert it is, the shorter its wavelength and the higher its frequency, which produces brighter image in the digital sensors specifid for UV. While IR is on the opposite side, the more covert it is, the longer its wavelength and the lower its frequency, which produces darker image in its digital sensors. But IR sure is a safer light, and compatible to use easily with standard digital sensors.

Edit reason: a single miss typed word correction


ATB

Midnight.Sun
Also, I like to point out:

In bright light like in daylight, our pupils constricts due to the iris muscles reflex reaction in response to the amount of light that enters the eye and land on the retina cells, in order to protect those cells, and regulate our vision capability, thus in bright situations that restricts the amount of light to the minimum possible allowed to enter the eye, and that restriction results in narrowing the pupil hole, which makes the light fall in the fovea spot in the back part of the retina inside the eye, the place that contains all the cone cells, that has the colours distinguishing pigment receptors (blue, red, green) that allows us to form coloured vision in bright light situations. While in the night time or dark situations in general, the opposite happens, our pupils dilates due to the iris muscles contracting to the maximum possible, in order to help the eye to gather the most amount of light available, and that widened path makes the gathered light land on the peripheral part of the retina inside the eye this time, because of the expansion of pupil hole, and that peripheral part contains the rode cells of the retina, which are like twenty times more in number than cones, and those rode cells are responsible for our low light vision, they have different kind of pigment (mono if you will) and the allow us to see only in black, grey, and white, in addition to the tiny colour distinguishing by the cones that remains under the minimum available light for them to react, as cones have a lot less work to do in the dark because of the weak available light intensity landing on them in the fovea spot.

So -and that's what matters here- the danger of the invisible IR light is not only because of the fact that our eyes can't see it to allow us to blink and close our eye lids and change our looking direction, it's also because of the widened status of our pupils in the dark, which will allow all the powerful IR rays that are reflecting of the areas and objects targeted with the powerful torches or lasers, to land on the wide peripheral parts and fovea spot of the retina inside the eye, without any reflex from the iris muscles to narrow the pupil's light path, or any voluntary reaction like closing the eyes, letting retina damage to happen.


-----


* Discarding the writing style check, helps in benefiting from the content. To the folks aren't familiar with it, in the first place. Thanks.
Last edited by Midnight.Sun on 04 Sep 2017, 02:45, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
snoopy
Posts: 2628
Joined: 22 Jun 2012, 23:22
Location: NER NER LOL stoke on trent

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by snoopy » 04 Sep 2017, 00:10

starts like sunburnt eyeballs, or the early faize of being flashed up from welders arc, crossed with a tiny hayfever tingle...or head on it's exacly like some one poking in an index finger with no forgiving...lol theres a clue there to.


ooo itchy eyes? no matter you'll be blind tomorrow lol.(or at the very least little tiney blind spots that you wont notice untill you pull out on a plainly visable car that just wasnt there.


safe?


wanna see it through an intecifier...a bit like some one budooshing yu for heed with the heel of their hand...one week eye.(very safe hu?)
'who is that masked man? its the kemosabby der..the bloody injun tells you every week!'

User avatar
Midnight.Sun
Posts: 291
Joined: 08 Nov 2015, 01:49
Location: Syria

Re: LASER SAFETY

Post by Midnight.Sun » 04 Sep 2017, 00:16

Who said IR light is safe ?!

*Edit: Who said water is safe? Or wind? Or anything? Ain't it all depends on the amount and concentration.
Last edited by Midnight.Sun on 26 Apr 2018, 02:16, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply