Shrouded Out

For all pcp's and springers. Tuning, repairs, pellets, show and tell.
wade
Posts: 6
Joined: 09 Jul 2015, 05:42
Location: ross on wye

Re: Shrouded Out

Postby wade » 24 Aug 2016, 16:29

Pickle you are right I was 8 years to late to witness the flames and yes I do load my own also I think you have a lot of valid points me and a friend both bought bsa r10 he bought the shrouded version and I bought the none shrouded and mine grouped better than his I'm not sure if it was the shroud causing it as I could not talk him into taking it off to see if it improved the group also you have got me worrying about my wildcat now I have owned the 30-06 for around 15 years now and it has never let me down but it has a wildcat moderator on that comes over the barrel and it needs regular maintenance to make sure that the barrel stays in good condition due to gas and condensation so I'm wondering what condition the barrel is in that's hiding under the shroud on the fx wildcat and how do I get it off to check :?

pickle
Stihl pickled
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Joined: 27 Feb 2016, 15:03
Location: UK, Mid Essex.

Re: Shrouded Out

Postby pickle » 24 Aug 2016, 21:25

Blimey Wade I only had a go at the FX because the guy was saving money and he knew my ego might be massaged. In the event he produced an exploded view from Chambers ( I think) of which i still have a copy somewhere. Once I could visualise what was inside i got to work - but it was terribly fraught for a variety of reasons. Any how, how long is the actual barrel on your FX and is it in fact supporting the shroud. I can't see that there would be any serious corrosion betwixt barrel and shroud unless it has been used in damp conditions and put away wet, then WD40 or somesuch would infiltrate had you been using it periodically. Diesel and Plus Gas is good if you can cope with the smell and the way it wicks. Some AR barrels are corrosion treated but not all, and not all AR barrels are treated along their entire length. If there is a shroud fitted then why use an expensive corrosion inhibitor specified by the barrel maker if you can get away with it (manufacturer). Most AR barrels I have seen look to have a ground finish and some sort of corrosion treatment. FX employ some strange engineering practises typically Swedish, complex and tortuous but superbly machined to tolerance and finish. In short having drivelled on, I don't have a clue how to take your shroud off. My bet is that Axtell whats is name has done agood job on your barrel. The jury is out on smooth barrels though. Does your FX have a smooth bore barrel fitted and what does it group like consistantly. i mean't to ask is your FX FAC with adjustable power levels.

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Frogman Ladue
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 00:22
Location: USA, Ohio

Re: Shrouded Out

Postby Frogman Ladue » 25 Aug 2016, 01:49

Radagast wrote:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9rGpykAX1fo

Its the shoulder thing that goes up.


^^^What he said.
Evolving work in progress, E700+DSA (Build Finished Feb2016)..Link

Last update to US spec'ed E700+DSA T-20,T67 Build. (US Parts List!)...Link

pickle
Stihl pickled
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Joined: 27 Feb 2016, 15:03
Location: UK, Mid Essex.

Re: Shrouded Out

Postby pickle » 25 Aug 2016, 09:13

Wade, now that i have noted your FX is a Bullpup thingey and may be FAC it is not a good idea to squirt or introduce any thing 'up the end' just yet. If the barrel vents unobstructed into the shroud (unlikely) and there are no other components inside and you can see daylight between the end of the barrel and inner end of the shroud then a light spray of WD may not go amiss. However it is more likely that some cunning Swede has hung the shroud off the end of the barrel and possibly used an O ring as a buffer ala Daystate. Any petroleum derived substance is likely to combust at those levels of pressure in a confined space (as I'm sure you are aware). Like I said take the shroud off and throw it away. It may unscrew or have wretched little grub screws hidden away. Looks to have much the same action design as the FX Glad MK1 with a few extra bells and whistles. No exploded diagram available as yet.

pickle
Stihl pickled
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Joined: 27 Feb 2016, 15:03
Location: UK, Mid Essex.

Re: Shrouded Out

Postby pickle » 03 Sep 2016, 20:38

As a furtherance and a buggerance I have now finally removed my Daystate Wolverine .177 barrel shroud for posterity and stuck an adaptor on the end for better or worserer. Having made up an 1/2x20 adaptor from dural I hung some moddies of the threaded end before I removed the adaptor from the six jaw. Well, you do not want to know the results from the DTI positioned in the out bit of two well known brands of moddy. Carbon fibre is more than a bit wobbly and sits where it sets - nuff said. Concentricity is a concept best left in abeyance by certain manufacturers and included within the annals of fiction. The only mod to pass the con test was an unknown bought from a well known Suffolk chap purported to be Finnish in origin, the moddy not him. Nice American lathe in his workshop. No markings on the moddy but within .006" concentricity at the out end - blutty good - but does it suppress your 12 foot pound AR. How the hell do I know i'm deaf remember. Consider this, there are at least three dynamics operating in concert up your shroud wanting to 'bend' your pellet as it wends its way out. Now if you enjoy self deception, stick your moddy into your lathe chuck - given that you and your chuck can be trusted, and bore the end cap parallel - in situ of course. There you have it, concentricity. Wrong.
Last edited by pickle on 15 Sep 2016, 21:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Clunge
Posts: 189
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 23:32
Location: Staffs

Re: Shrouded Out

Postby Clunge » 14 Sep 2016, 07:39

Wade asked:
I'm wondering what condition the barrel is in that's hiding under the shroud on the fx wildcat and how do I get it off to check


If sub-12, there will not be much under the shroud, but if FAC, there'll be quite a lot of lead dust. I think this is because at FAC velocities, the pellet 'skids' through the terminal smooth twist rifling picking up some spin - though it is becoming apparent that the pellet does not pick up the full spin rate that full rifling would.

Shroud can unscrew if you heat the base of the shroud (not the cylinder!) with a hairdryer. mine came loose when the metal hit about 50c.

There are exploded diagrams of the WC on the FX site now.

Be careful with the lead dust, or you'll end up as soft-in-the-head as some of the other posters here.

pickle
Stihl pickled
Posts: 435
Joined: 27 Feb 2016, 15:03
Location: UK, Mid Essex.

Re: Shrouded Out

Postby pickle » 16 Sep 2016, 08:57

Hi Clunge, been thinking about your post and dust issues therein. I believe you are right about there being more bits of lead created from air rifling than smooth bore/twist. Having run an FAC Airwolf for several years in .22 set at @ 800fps there wasn't that much detritus but it did need a clean in that area every now and again. Lovely barrel. We won't go that place though. What does interest me is the dynamic of your smooth twist barrel where pellet meets 'rifling'. Am trying to visualize the pellet travelling in a straight line down your barrel and then being made to spin, sort of 0 to 60 in zero time - al la Santa Pod. The dynamic of that interaction takes my breath away. Am reading the FX barrels are only 10" long - surely not! I think if you have taken the shroud off then you are a brave fellow. Tell me more if you will.

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Clunge
Posts: 189
Joined: 08 Apr 2014, 23:32
Location: Staffs

Re: Shrouded Out

Postby Clunge » 16 Sep 2016, 09:52

Hi. The .22 Wildcat barrels (probably the .177s as well) are 19.7". The .25 barrels are 24". Vermi barrels may be a lot shorter.

The .25 FAC Wildcat makes a lot more dust than my .22 Airwolf. The <12 .22 Wildcat makes virtually no dust. I reckon this is because the slower pellet does not 'skid' when it meets the 2" of rifling at the muzzle end and fully engages with the rifling.

So the <12 .22 does do 0-60 (spin) in virtually zero time.
The .25 on the other hand does not so fully engage and only makes say 0-30 (spin) in the 2" available.

The .25 WC is a tad more accurate than my (33fpe) .22 Air wolf at the zero distance of 45 yards. Beyond that the WC wins.

pickle
Stihl pickled
Posts: 435
Joined: 27 Feb 2016, 15:03
Location: UK, Mid Essex.

Re: Shrouded Out

Postby pickle » 16 Sep 2016, 21:59

Clunge, had another look at the FX site and some of their barrels are apparently 24". That is phenomenal. Can't get to grip with 7.62 or semi auto air power but can now see why you are so keen. I guess I'm really out of touch here and some of my prejudice is now definitely old hat. Air Power has moved on in the rest of the world and we seem to have been left behind a tad. However some design and engineering practice has filtered through. I would love to know how accurate your FX machines are in real world terms and how reliable. However, it would be purely subjective but still worth a note in my book.


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