Video showing thermal performance

A place for all thermal spotter and riflescope questions and info
ucanthide
Posts: 83
Joined: 16 May 2015, 22:36
Location: London

Re: Video showing thermal performance

Post by ucanthide » 08 Apr 2018, 18:53

Thats interesting, but Tornado technology is pretty old now, I think remote sensing/imaging is being done by satellites and drones..and those can see us from space which is more than 2 or 3 miles away. However I agree that they may not be as advanced with thermal as we expect them to be, I just find it hard to believe that we would have access to the same level of tech as the military. Also, cooled imagers that they have are stabalised etc and have higher detection ranges. I was always under the impression that this kind of technology was developed by the military then trickled down to us when it became obsolete o we would never have the same level as they do.

phoenix
BRUCE ALMIGHTY
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: Video showing thermal performance

Post by phoenix » 08 Apr 2018, 19:45

The Tornado airframe is certainly old, but the electronics it carries have been continually upgraded to keep it in front line service
The military did pay for the development of thermal imagers, in the same way they paid for GPS.
GPS was originally available to non military users with a random error "built in", but this error was later removed so now anyone with a GPS receiver can have the same accuracy as the military.
In the same way, the companies who were paid by the military to develop thermal sensors (primarily FLIR) were allowed to sell their products commercially because other companies in other countries had also figured out how to make them, so FLIR would be commercially disadvantaged if they were not allowed to sell their products to non military clients.
AFAIK, FLIR started selling thermal sensors to non military clients when pixel size was more than 40 micron. FLIR, and their competitors around the world are in a race to produce sensors with smaller and smaller pixels. We are at the point where 12 microns is leading the race.
It may well be that, given the wavelengths of radiation that are to be detected (8-14 micron) it's not possible to make pixels as small as those used in visible cameras and still get them to produce a usable signal when hit by a photon of radiation.
Certainly, satellites have cameras with fantastic resolution but again they use very long focal length lenses, plus visible cameras can have many more and much smaller pixels than is currently possible with thermal sensors.
Cooled imagers will give greater temperature sensitivity, but resolution is down to pixel pitch and lens focal length.
I haven't seen any thermal imagery from satellites that resolves down to the level of showing a single person.
If you know of any, please post a link

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

ucanthide
Posts: 83
Joined: 16 May 2015, 22:36
Location: London

Re: Video showing thermal performance

Post by ucanthide » 08 Apr 2018, 19:54

Well what you say makes sense, but could it be true that the military are no further ahead technologically than commercial companies? ( I mean having comerical companies and universities develop tech for the military then contractually restrict its distribution or availability to the public for a certain number of years) It would be very encouraging if that were the case. Also, I suppose as you say there us a limit to any technology, then things go in a different direction (in the 19th century they said at the current rate of horses being used as transport by the 20th century London would be under 1ft of horse manure..then the motor car was invented) like 3D imaging radar that can penetrate atmospheric conditions that visual and IR systems cannot, so maybe thermal will be replaced in a few years when they have a different means of imaging.

PEterW
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Joined: 10 Nov 2012, 16:16
Location: Sw London.

Re: Video showing thermal performance

Post by PEterW » 10 Apr 2018, 01:51

I would expect people to be used mid wave IR in the 3-5um band, less affected by humidity, need called detectors and higher resolution lenses. You probably won’t get a whole lot more pixels though. A lot of military technology is driven by “off the shelf” commercial as some militaries have had ever shrinking resources.

Peter

spiralviral
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Joined: 27 Jul 2013, 21:23
Location: Aberdeenshire

Re: Video showing thermal performance

Post by spiralviral » 23 Apr 2018, 06:10

Okay it'll not likely become available in Europe, but here's the boson 12 micron core married to a bigger lens:

http://youtu.be/ynMkIRyzJGk

If Ulis new 12 micron core is same spec, then it looks like they may well be a-coming!

phoenix
BRUCE ALMIGHTY
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: Video showing thermal performance

Post by phoenix » 23 Apr 2018, 09:22

Assuming that Pulsar stick with ULIS cores, then the magnification of a Helion XQ50 fitted with a 12 micron core instead of the current 17 micron core would have the base magnification increased from x4.1 to x7
In fact, any Pulsar thermal spotter or scope would have it's magnification increased by a factor of 1.7 if the existing 17 micron core with 384x288 pixels were to be replaced with the ULIS Atto 12 micron core which has 320x240 pixels.

Cheers

Bruce
Last edited by phoenix on 23 Apr 2018, 12:08, edited 2 times in total.
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

PEterW
Posts: 102
Joined: 10 Nov 2012, 16:16
Location: Sw London.

Re: Video showing thermal performance

Post by PEterW » 23 Apr 2018, 09:27

Any change of supplier would involve retooling... the 12um ULIS is a drop in replacement, minimal effort/cost. The low mag units could then use smaller (cheaper) lenses to keep the magnification low. Wonder if we should expect an autumn or spring announcement?


Peter

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