Flir Breach

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Novice1
Posts: 44
Joined: 05 Jan 2014, 18:48
Location: North west

Flir Breach

Post by Novice1 » 08 Apr 2018, 18:43

I've seen mention of this in a few publications. Anyone got their hands on one? Any views on the spec? Do we know a likely price?

Novice1

phoenix
BRUCE ALMIGHTY
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: Flir Breach

Post by phoenix » 08 Apr 2018, 19:19

Looking at the spec - 320x256 12 micron core with a 9mm lens giving an FOV of 24 x19 degrees and a magnification of x1 puts it roughly on a par with the now discontinued Pulsar Helion XQ19
The FLIR is small and light so might be useful for woodland stalkers, otherwise I can't get excited about it
Don't know the price

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

Novice1
Posts: 44
Joined: 05 Jan 2014, 18:48
Location: North west

Re: Flir Breach

Post by Novice1 » 08 Apr 2018, 20:40

Thanks for that Bruce. The size of it stood out for me, almost looked like a pvs14. Is this the start of units getting smaller, or are there specific factors which mean the better spec units need to be longer?

oggiegb
Posts: 46
Joined: 16 Dec 2013, 13:10
Location: Wokingham, Berks, United Kingdom

Re: Flir Breach

Post by oggiegb » 08 Apr 2018, 22:04

Saw a UK website saying they're £2325 and due after May.

phoenix
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Location: Aberdeen

Re: Flir Breach

Post by phoenix » 08 Apr 2018, 23:05

Novice1 wrote:Thanks for that Bruce. The size of it stood out for me, almost looked like a pvs14. Is this the start of units getting smaller, or are there specific factors which mean the better spec units need to be longer?
The biggest benefit if using 12 micron sensors as opposed to 17 or 25 micron sensors is that you can get the same magnification with a shorter focal length lens. That translates to a smaller, cheaper lens which will hopefully bring down prices.
Of course you can go the other way and use a 12 micron sensor with an existing lens and get more magnification (which would be my preference), but that won't be cheaper because there will be a premium on the new 12 micron sensors over the current 17 micron sensors.
The detection distance depends on the size of the pixels (in this case 12 microns) and the focal length of the lens - so if you want long distance detection you need a long focal length lens. In thermals, long focal length lenses are physically bigger than short focal length lenses so the lens is really the limiting factor in how small it can be made.

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

Novice1
Posts: 44
Joined: 05 Jan 2014, 18:48
Location: North west

Re: Flir Breach

Post by Novice1 » 09 Apr 2018, 07:18

Thought that might roughly be the case. Thanks for the explanation.

jasonm01
Posts: 3
Joined: 05 Apr 2018, 10:35
Location: UK

Re: Flir Breach

Post by jasonm01 » 23 Apr 2018, 12:19

Hi guys,
Apart from the new detector having 12um pixel detector, it also has an F1.04 lens.
Sensitivity is key for a more detailed image quality, too, and it has 40 to 60mk, which is good. (sees more temperature differences)

The "Movidius" image processing chip is advanced ("AI"), which is on-board the sensor (unusual), also saving space/size/weight/cost.
It upscales the image, so you see a 640x480 quality image, at 60hz (a nice image).
Screen is HD res, so you can see the image at its best.
https://youtu.be/hsopAM8FexE
https://youtu.be/hD3RYGJgH4A

The 9.1mm lens will limit the range, but give a nice angle of view. My USA colleagues have tested it and spotted wild boar at 550m.
The official DRI figures (detection distance) are being calculated and hope to have this info. within the next month.

Regards, Jason

phoenix
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Posts: 4704
Joined: 09 May 2012, 14:40
Location: Aberdeen

Re: Flir Breach

Post by phoenix » 23 Apr 2018, 15:36

jasonm01 wrote:
23 Apr 2018, 12:19
Hi guys,
Apart from the new detector having 12um pixel detector, it also has an F1.04 lens.
Sensitivity is key for a more detailed image quality, too, and it has 40 to 60mk, which is good. (sees more temperature differences)

The "Movidius" image processing chip is advanced ("AI"), which is on-board the sensor (unusual), also saving space/size/weight/cost.
It upscales the image, so you see a 640x480 quality image, at 60hz (a nice image).
Screen is HD res, so you can see the image at its best.
https://youtu.be/hsopAM8FexE
https://youtu.be/hD3RYGJgH4A

The 9.1mm lens will limit the range, but give a nice angle of view. My USA colleagues have tested it and spotted wild boar at 550m.
The official DRI figures (detection distance) are being calculated and hope to have this info. within the next month.

Regards, Jason

Jason,
Thanks for the info.
An f1.04 lens is good, but nothing special in a thermal imager because the lens materials have much higher refractive indices than glass.
That means getting the curvature needed for the diameter and focal length of the lens to be the same is not nearly as difficult or expensive as it would be in a glass lens system.
The Ward WT thermals all have f1.0 lenses.
40-60mK sensitivity is about par for the course for uncooled microbolometers and it's not going to improve much unless the sensor is cooled.
A 60Hz refresh rate is nice, but it's my understanding that any thermal imagers produced in the USA with a refresh rate exceeding 9Hz cannot be sold outside the USA because of ITAR.
Can you confirm that the FLIR Breach WILL be available in the UK
If it has a 9.1mm lens and a 12micron pitch sensors, you don't need to wait for the official DRI figures
For a 50% probability of detection for a human size target (1.7m high x 0.5m wide)
The detection range is 466m
The recognition range is 116m
The identification range is 58m

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

jasonm01
Posts: 3
Joined: 05 Apr 2018, 10:35
Location: UK

Re: Flir Breach

Post by jasonm01 » 30 May 2018, 13:43

Hi Bruce,

You can buy 30 or 60hz units easily now.
It used to be the case that any thermal from USA above 9Hz was ITAR, but they relaxed this in 2015 with ITAR exemptions.
It was a pain being restricted to <9hz prior to this, so very nice to be allowed to have access to 30hz and 60hz units.

Sensitivity is important for image detail, and you'll find that most suppliers to hunting customers don't quote the sensitivity of their units.
I agree 60mK is par for the course and FLIR's units are usually at 50mK. But 40mK is pretty good compared to the competition.
Less than 40mK is possible without cooling, but puts the price up (Prohibitively at present. There are uncooled units for industrial applications that have 30mK and 20mK).

BREACH is already available in the UK. I got my 1st demo units last week and am testing it out.
I'll take some images and post some soon, although this summer heat is not the best for thermal.

Thanks for the DRI figures.

Cheers, Jason.

Sussexsteve
Posts: 111
Joined: 06 Oct 2013, 11:43
Location: Sussex

Re: Flir Breach

Post by Sussexsteve » 27 Jun 2018, 19:42

I’d like to see a 12 micron 100mm lens scope may part with my WT1 75-3 then

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