ADDONIGHT

A discussion group for all nightvision users. Find 'Best scope for nv?' here also.
gunnybedford
Posts: 56
Joined: 27 Jan 2018, 15:00
Location: Lympne Kent

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by gunnybedford » 13 Jul 2018, 05:29

disagree with your post and I think you have missed the point . We the customers need to know what is the difference between the two and why one is a lot more money than the other


We all know why you pay more for some cars so in my mind that is a stupid comparison


Personally i dont think its a stupid comparison, thank you mate, i think its stupid when people try and inflame this situation, Its highly unlikely that Clive is going to speak about technical specs and upgrades in an open forum, especially relating to a similar product sold by others, all over the world we see companies not divulging certain aspects of their products due to copyright, IP issues, so whats the difference here ?

Have people tried e mailing or ringing Clive in private to discuss the issue, or these nearby dropped in to talk to him about the scope, had look at one in his workshop ? rather than getting him to list things in a public forum ?

If you look at Clives reply he has listed a number of things it would appear he has done personally to improve the unit, including getting it safety tested and then modifications in the UK as a result, i would expect that does not come free, and would probably elude to the increased cost ?

If people think thats too much i guess thats fine they can purchase the other units, if not consider one of Clive's units.

I would think that out of mutual respect both Clive and Splatty have, up to this point not openly spoken about specs etc, its a shame both have been drawn into this on this forum.

I joined this forum to expand my knowledge on NV issues, and to improve my hunting.

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CustomRifleScopesUK
TRADER MEMBER
Posts: 1024
Joined: 21 Feb 2014, 12:39
Location: Medway UK
Contact:

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by CustomRifleScopesUK » 13 Jul 2018, 06:33

cliveward wrote:
12 Jul 2018, 14:53
Thank you for the confirmation.

As you seem fully aware, the Adder specification is indeed our work. Especially interesting as you mention a couple of points such as the new clamp and zoom steps in the software. These are just 'some' of the points in our Adder specification which is entirely our own work. None of these changes would be made unless we had specified them at the ODM factory. It's that simple.

The fact that you are proudly boasting that you will also sell this specification, quite honestly has me lost for words. Proudly boasting publicly that you are happy to make money off of someone else's hard work, knowledge and ingenuity. :shock:

Then lets move onto the 47mm bayonet clamp. The only ones in existence are manufactured to our manufacturing drawing...I know this because I personally drew it! Again you proudly boast that you will sell these as well! If selling an item manufactured using a competitors manufacturing drawing isn't IP theft then I literally don't know what is? :o I'm absolutely beyond amazed!

So well done you. You seem to know a bit of the new Adder specification. :thumbup:

But here's something interesting. You don't know all of it and even more interesting is that even the ODM factory don't know all of it because, for one we are not complete morons and secondly we need to make engineering improvements here in the UK for quality, but mostly for product safety purposes.

If you are not making changes to any unit here in the UK, then they don't conform to safety standards and you are putting yourselves and your customers at risk. No point asking your overseas contacts what these might be, because they don't know! I haven't told them! :shh:

You'll have to do your own work and get one of your units to a product safety testing lab and find out for yourself and then organise the necessary recall. :thumbup:

And that sort of brings us around to pricing. If we didn't have to do any work whatsoever in terms of design, testing, modifications, safety, performance, etc. and were just buying a bog standard factory item...we could also flog it dirt cheap as well. Even cheaper if we didn't have the pesky annoyance of wages, rent, rates, tax, VAT, insurance, etc., :roll:

Come to think of it, we could sell cheap rifle mounted range finders if we wanted to...but we don't. I wonder why? Maybe we have tested them? Or maybe we are just acting like gentlemen and had already decided against it long ago as there is already a small company doing that in the UK and thought we'd leave them to it as they have actually put a bit of their own effort into that. :roll:


Cheers





Clive
Clive Clive Clive,

You are still not reading me clearly, you are missing the whole point.....everyone seems to tiptoe around you and now that i have backed you into a corner your fighting back with more smoke and mirrors, words are cheap without factual evidence, I'm not here to fight you Clive, i just want the old Clive back, the old honest Clive, you seem to think i have targeted you, you were not even on my radar when i first spoke to the manufacturer through my agent. I was trying to bring these units to the UK at a great price as i noticed some one else selling them at £650. It upset me that someone was selling them for that price when i had already established with the manufacturer how they were built, it was only until i announced to another forum group, that i found out you were also selling them. Take a good look at my web site, i give away lots of information, basic schematics for the average Joe to understand and build their own gear cheaply, i sell kits and parts so the average person afford to have night vision, i give away expensive prizes on facebook on a regular basis, so telling me that you give away free designs is nothing new, saying you have put in more effort to justify prices than i do is obvious to anyone who looks at my website or follows the groups i'm in.
A while later i get a warning email from you stating that I was infringing on your design, so let's be completely transparent to the public and reflect on the email you sent to me as its in the public interest......oh, and i was not just the only recipient was i Clive !
So to keep this above board, i'm going to summarise what you wrote to me
Dear Ashley,

"A customer has told us that you are offering for sale a digital day / night vision unit that appears externally like our Warden Adder Scopecam.

The Warden Adder Scopecam is our registered design and we would request that you cease all sales of infringing items.

We have purchased the infringing items ourselves from the Chinese market places and we have found that further to the infringement and ignoring performance issues, these products fall well below safety standards and are illegal for both import and indeed sale in the UK."

Now after reading this letter i was very shocked and didn't want to break any rules and i wanted to act like a "gentlemen" as you quite rightly stated. (chuckled that you stated you purchased your own product and tested it from the Chinese market )
So I froze the order and you will be pleased to hear, i lost some customers and a great deal of time......but like you "Im also not a Moron!"
The manufacturer was deeply upset when i asked him, that you stated you had helped in the design of the unit in question and that you own the right and you alone have the right to sell it in the uk. I still wanted to make sure that i wasn't breaking the LAW as i respect IPO laws.

So with haste I replied to Clive this email number 1

https://image.ibb.co/gRCShT/clivewardreturnletter1.png

Now after a few days of waiting for your answer Clive, I called the Intellectual Patent office and told them the situation, they informed me to contact you back again as its the LAW that you reply to me within a good time frame with the details they showed me. I spent hrs looking for patents and designs in your name with this unit...........................nothing, design registration............................nothing ??? I then send you a second letter as i have customers waiting, lost more customers......do you see where this is going, your trick was illegal, it interfered with another companies business and you could be in a lot of trouble !

Email number 2

https://image.ibb.co/dqnw98/clivewardreturnletter2.png

Still no reply, phone call back to the IPO (intellectual property office ) more hrs on the phone as asked them to help find your design rights, ................nothing...............nothing...........maybe the IPO was having a bad day, but he was a little displeased that if you have done what we think you have done, then you have just undermined what the IPO are there for, not just to protect patent,TM, C or designs, but to also stop people from twisting the system to benefit someone who doesn't. So at this point I was like you stated above "quite honestly has me lost for words"
I then thought i best contact the manufacturer direct, establish trust and find out what is going on, at this point you try another rash decision and confuse the manufacturer to a degree that forced him to ask us to be their translator :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Yes Clive, all the messages to and from.......It was quite an unusual position to be in....the IRONY !......it was your fault i now know everything, having to translate for you and him ....... :wtf: ...believe you me Clive, i did not want to get involved to this degree and you pushed it on me.

Telling everyone fakes are being made, saying you have tested them in a LAB, you paid a LAB to test fake products that do not exist :shock: .....and now the back tracking, now you test them and found they are unsafe and modify them, you do not have the position to make that judgement, that lies with the international trade regulators and customs, you may be an engineer but that is not your call......you also say you may have tested one of our rangefinders, what does "MAY" mean, you have or you have not ?......please show us the documented LAB results Clive, i will also like to point out that you do not know me that well do you? My early position in life was to modify military equipment in engineering for shock proofing, EMP proofing ( that's nuke proofing for people who do not know), So should i boast no, can i educate you in how its done....no, not because i don't want to Clive, its the official secrets act, im not permitted........does my skill set over ride yours.....no Clive, i am like you, i do not hold the position either, unless i am wrong and you do work for the international trade regulators and customs.
To say I am putting my customers at risk with the knowledge base i have over you is a joke.....the only risk is the battery, we do not sell the battery to the customer for the ADDONIGHT, ive had them apart and checked.
If you had the customer at heart instead of your pocket, you would have warned others of the actual danger, how selfish is that if it were true :shock: but its not true!

Back to the facts

By this time i have tried to be civil with you and do everything above board, even after all the info i have had to translate, don't worry Clive, i will not put it on here, i cannot show anything that you have not permitted me to show for legal reasons. It's a month gone by and i have tried my best at ignoring your misleading propaganda of fake product that Customriflescopes and others are selling while your negotiating new ideas with the very same manufacturer that you say are producing imitations. that yours is the only registered design :crazy: you have not come up with any design proof or documentation, you are committing an offence by not doing so while advertising it, you are very quick to answer when you are in the right, but very slow if not at all when you are not, i put out some bate out in this post to make a point !

Email 3

https://image.ibb.co/fGiLnT/clivewardlreturnletter3.png

Still no reply, have we established you do not have design right over this product, yes i think so, or i would have had a letter from you by now and none of this would have happened, i would have humbly returned a letter to you stating well done Clive, sorry i infringed your product and i have cancelled the import.

Now let's get back to why i have butted in on this post that i never started, i know you may have RECENTLY helped design the new bayonet ( why i bated you ), I know what you have been doing recently to upgrade, even the ones you have not mentioned, let your new customers jump for joy when they see where the extra £220 pounds of their hard earned cash is going. I am happy for you Clive, i just wanted to get your attention and the only way i could do it was this way.
You were doing really well with your after service, but then you did this........I get it, you were overjoyed when you first noticed the product and wanted to be the first and only seller in the UK, but you have not proved you had input to the original and the manufacturer was gutted when he found out you said this.

As for Taxes, i also have the annoyance of rent, rates, tax, VAT, insurance, etc. and have an accountant, look up LTD company VS sole trader, in fact, in some respects I pay more than you and have to risk more, if you go under, hopefully not, then you lose nothing, the tax payer pays your company dept, please do not use that as an excuse, nor LAB testing, or small changes, just be honest please, drop the price a little, I'm not asking you to drop to the levels i do, but if you drop a little, your customers will LOVE YOU for it and you will sell these units to more customers that cannot usually afford.

https://www.simplybusiness.co.uk/knowle ... d-company/

So a lesson learned i hope, next time you think a little before you unlawfully attack another seller and treat your customers with what they deserve and not mislead them in the beginning, also its a free market and trying to monopolise when you have no legal right, small or big, there are many sellers who are small, is that a problem ?

You can go about selling your Adder and i will go about my business like professionals, just don't mislead customers anymore into thinking fakes or on the market, one day someone may tell the authorities, let the market decide who sells the most.

My issue is not with the IP, or lack of it, like i said above, you missed the point, my issue is with the misleading information of fakes being on the market to get the upper hand over another seller, its illegal practice !

I wish you all the best Clive, and i am being sincere about that, and like a gentleman I have not tried to purposely sell any products you have been.
Lets close this chapter and not aggravate the situation, i will personally keep the peace and wished this could have been solved with emails like i tried !

Have a lovely day

Kind regards CRS

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jdk1
Posts: 1961
Joined: 13 Aug 2012, 17:11
Location: west kingsdown kent

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by jdk1 » 13 Jul 2018, 06:33

cliveward wrote:
12 Jul 2018, 14:53
Thank you for the confirmation.

As you seem fully aware, the Adder specification is indeed our work. Especially interesting as you mention a couple of points such as the new clamp and zoom steps in the software. These are just 'some' of the points in our Adder specification which is entirely our own work. None of these changes would be made unless we had specified them at the ODM factory. It's that simple.

The fact that you are proudly boasting that you will also sell this specification, quite honestly has me lost for words. Proudly boasting publicly that you are happy to make money off of someone else's hard work, knowledge and ingenuity. :shock:

Then lets move onto the 47mm bayonet clamp. The only ones in existence are manufactured to our manufacturing drawing...I know this because I personally drew it! Again you proudly boast that you will sell these as well! If selling an item manufactured using a competitors manufacturing drawing isn't IP theft then I literally don't know what is? :o I'm absolutely beyond amazed!

So well done you. You seem to know a bit of the new Adder specification. :thumbup:

But here's something interesting. You don't know all of it and even more interesting is that even the ODM factory don't know all of it because, for one we are not complete morons and secondly we need to make engineering improvements here in the UK for quality, but mostly for product safety purposes.

If you are not making changes to any unit here in the UK, then they don't conform to safety standards and you are putting yourselves and your customers at risk. No point asking your overseas contacts what these might be, because they don't know! I haven't told them! :shh:

You'll have to do your own work and get one of your units to a product safety testing lab and find out for yourself and then organise the necessary recall. :thumbup:

And that sort of brings us around to pricing. If we didn't have to do any work whatsoever in terms of design, testing, modifications, safety, performance, etc. and were just buying a bog standard factory item...we could also flog it dirt cheap as well. Even cheaper if we didn't have the pesky annoyance of wages, rent, rates, tax, VAT, insurance, etc., :roll:

Come to think of it, we could sell cheap rifle mounted range finders if we wanted to...but we don't. I wonder why? Maybe we have tested them? Or maybe we are just acting like gentlemen and had already decided against it long ago as there is already a small company doing that in the UK and thought we'd leave them to it as they have actually put a bit of their own effort into that. :roll:


Cheers





Clive


"BOOM" as Clive drops the mic and exits stage left :lol:

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Mini Magnum
Posts: 746
Joined: 24 Nov 2013, 00:16
Location: Durham

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by Mini Magnum » 13 Jul 2018, 07:15

All we need now is Ian Sirrell to join in :silent:
Last edited by Mini Magnum on 13 Jul 2018, 16:07, edited 1 time in total.

warbucks
Posts: 854
Joined: 16 Sep 2013, 15:14
Location: Dewsbury

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by warbucks » 13 Jul 2018, 12:17

I'd like to thank this forum's moderators for allowing this thread to run.

Allowing it to run has brought more information out between the units sold by "Clive" and "Ashley", + others, i'm not exactly in the market for one of theses. but i now think there is enough information there for people to make an informed choice on which to buy.

Dave (warbucks)

phatlad
Posts: 33
Joined: 04 May 2014, 08:55
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by phatlad » 13 Jul 2018, 16:56

What App do you use to connect the units to smart phone or tablet ?

phoenix
BRUCE ALMIGHTY
Posts: 4840
Joined: 09 May 2012, 14:40
Location: Aberdeen

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by phoenix » 13 Jul 2018, 17:21

This is what it says in the manual
The Wifi name will be “NVxxxx” and support APP in smart phone (app name:ppshow/password:12345678)

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

phatlad
Posts: 33
Joined: 04 May 2014, 08:55
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by phatlad » 13 Jul 2018, 17:25

Yes I've got that but it doesn't mention what app to actually use only how to connect.

phoenix
BRUCE ALMIGHTY
Posts: 4840
Joined: 09 May 2012, 14:40
Location: Aberdeen

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by phoenix » 13 Jul 2018, 20:11

OK, I just set this up on an Android tablet
1. Go to the app store and download an app called ppshow
2. Switch on the wifi on the add-on
3. On the tablet scan for wifi hot spots - the add-on will come up as NVxxxxxxxxx
4. connect to the wifi using the password 12345678
Once the wifi is connected, open the app, click on "connect device" and after a short delay you should see the image from the add-o.
There is, of course, the usual wifi delay between what the camera sees and the image being displayed on the tablet, but the image quality is pretty good.

Cheers

Bruce
LAND ROVER - THE WORLD'S WORST 4X4 BY FAR

phatlad
Posts: 33
Joined: 04 May 2014, 08:55
Location: Nottinghamshire

Re: ADDONIGHT

Post by phatlad » 13 Jul 2018, 20:16

Top man Bruce... I read instructions several times... Just didn't click the app name was ppshow... maybe instructions should be English not Chinglish lol

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