Maggie Twatcher

[rodp]

quite right ian, but it would also make him a lunatic that needs locking up and put him in the same catagory as the red-neck that claims to have been probed by little green men

talk about double standards

"i believe in god"...why's that then?..."cos i have faith"...oh ok, you must be trustworthy

"i believe in god"...why's that then?..."cos he came round my house last night"...NUTTER!!, stay away from my children!

I hadn't thought of that one

So they insist you believe in something apparently real but you can't see, smell, hear or prove it, but if you then say you CAN see, smell, hear or prove it you get locked away !!

And surely, it would be Heresy to say you spoke with God or had him round for tea as it would go against all established beliefs.
That means they want you believe in something they say is real but if you proved it to be real (as they say it is) then they would bring a charge of Heresy against you because it would go against the established religious belief that it really isn't real

This is too much for my simple head, we need Bruce to translate

[rodp]

I wouldn't regard myself as a religious person but neither do I have a gripe with most of those who are.
What I do find objectionable is the minority within those religions who think they have to drag everyone else to the fold.
That goes for Muslim extremists as well as those who knock on your door trying to recruit new members, religion in my opinion should be a personal thing for ones own self satisfaction whatever that might be.
Whether they're on deaths door and take some comfort in thinking they're going to a better place, whether it be a social circle for someone, or just what the family have always done, it should remain their choice and not something to be thrust upon others.
I don't need nor want someone telling me what I need to do to improve my standing in life, that applies to other matters as well as religion.
One of my mates, of his choosing not mine always seems to speak as if he knows better than I do, such as, You'll have to watch such and such a film, you'll enjoy it. You need to meet my brothers, you'll get on with him, the real pisser offer is, You should have done it this way it would have been better.
Now what really gets my goat is that I will decide whether or not I enjoy a certain film, I will decide what I think of his brother and I have already decided how to do what I've just done, I don't need him to tell me.
The same goes for restaurants and waiters, when and if they say "enjoy" after plonking the plate in front of me, FFS I will decide whether or not I've enjoyed the meal after I've tasted it, I don't need telling what I should think when I've just caught sight of it and not a morsel has passed my lips.
As for space aliens being yesterdays builders, sorry folks I don't hold with that one.
I will admit that some things remain beyond explanation at the moment, but it doesn't mean there isn't a logical reason lurking in the wings. So do we hold men from Mars responsible for all such unexplained happenings. The Nazca lines in the Puruvian desert are apparently visible from some surrounding hills so it might just be they liked looking at what they'd done as opposed to providing a landing area for flying saucers.
Lets face it, making a square block ain't that hard if you've got the time and skilled labour to do so, all sides the same length and each corner on the flat the same distance apart, two pieces of wood should do the trick.
Many old ways and methods will have been forgotten over the years gone by, engineering feats as well as such things as natural remedies, it still goes on today over relatively short time scales. How many people can work a traction engine? How many horse drawn plough men remain?
Some of the ancient cave paintings are a bit spooky though, drawings of what looks like a helicopter or plane etc, I however don't believe that helicopters existed in the stone age and there is an explanation, as said previously, but we don't know it.
Lets face it if someone looked at some of todays modern art in a few thousand years they might think it looks like a recent invention of their time.
Ramble over.

Chas, can you kindly refrain from making sensible posts on this thread please





I'll be serious for a mo here though Chas. The stone blocks are not only huge and square they're finished to such a degree that you can't slide a piece of paper between them. They are also accurate to point something of a degree. Let's see you do that with a stick and a piece of antler
Apparently it could have been done but would have taken so long they would still be doing it

[SikaStag]

[quote="rodp"

This is too much for my simple head, we need Bruce to translate [/quote]

I was thinking along the same lines.


My Wife, came from a family that were all involved in the Church. Both her parents were Elders of the Kirk, her sister and bother in law ran the youth club. My Wife was Sunday School teacher.

From the age of 12, my Wife developed a curvature of her spine that worsened as she went through her teens. She was seeing a so called specialist that was seeing her up till she was 19 years old. At that point, he told my Wife that he knows very little about this condition, after 7 years of seeing him (The Bastard). She then seen a real specialist. Who said he can do nothing as she is too old. If he had seen her at age 12, he could have done surgery to correct the problem.

My Wife worked with this condition as a clerical officer in the local health centre. She was in extreme pain every day of her working life. 6 months before we were married, she was in a cast from her waist to her neck. She then wore a body moulded brace that went from her waist to the top of her chest. She was pensioned off work at 38 years old, through her medical condition. We have no family. I knew this when I married her. She could not carry a child full term. I loved her (still do) and wanted to spend the rest of my life with her.

What really pisses me off, is the members of her family that come out with the same words every time they ask her how she is. It is normally the same answer she gives. I am in pain. "Oh we will pray for you". They have been saying this for 30+ years. How long does it take for an individual to realise that there is no one out there that can hear those prayers. Nothing ever improves after prayers. After 20 years of marriage an listening to my rants re religion. My Wife is now of the same opinion as I.

She was also diagnosed with a Trigeminal Neuralgia. This is a facial pain that is called the suicide illness.
It is the equivalent of a migraine headache and toothache at the same time. This is someone that has attended church all of her life. Even whilst we were married she attended the churches where we have lived.
She said one day whilst she was in extreme pain, What did I do to deserve this torture. Was I Hitler in a past life and this is pay back.
It is not good to watch the person that you love being in constant pain, this is after all the medication that she takes on a daily basis. The box she has her meds in is a foot square.

She very rarely complains, opting to sleep through the worst days when the pain is unbearable.

Is there a God. If there is, he aint doing much to help those that have stood in his house over the years to worship him.

For the record. There was more chance of some of my relatives being on the roof of the church after dark, looking for lead.

Ian

[chas]

Chas, can you kindly refrain from making sensible posts on this thread please





I'll be serious for a mo here though Chas. The stone blocks are not only huge and square they're finished to such a degree that you can't slide a piece of paper between them. They are also accurate to point something of a degree. Let's see you do that with a stick and a piece of antler
Apparently it could have been done but would have taken so long they would still be doing it [/quote]


That wasn't meant to be sensible, How dare you
Wasn't there a telly program about these blocks ?
I seem to recall watching something about them, I couldn't do what they did but still say given enough time and enough skilled stone masons they had could match todays tolerances but on a considerably different time scale.
I take my hat off to them.
When my brother came over from Australia some years ago I took him in to York Minster, never been in there before myself but we both just stood there looking up and wondering how on earth they did it, absolutely incredible workmanship.
In it's present form construction took nearly 250 years or so I believe and that is in more modern times than you're talking, not many people would wait that long these days.
Maybe divine intervention does exist.

[rodp]

[quote="rodp"

This is too much for my simple head, we need Bruce to translate

I was thinking along the same lines.


My Wife, came from a family that were all involved in the Church. Both her parents were Elders of the Kirk, her sister and bother in law ran the youth club. My Wife was Sunday School teacher.

From the age of 12, my Wife developed a curvature of her spine that worsened as she went through her teens. She was seeing a so called specialist that was seeing her up till she was 19 years old. At that point, he told my Wife that he knows very little about this condition, after 7 years of seeing him (The Bastard). She then seen a real specialist. Who said he can do nothing as she is too old. If he had seen her at age 12, he could have done surgery to correct the problem.

My Wife worked with this condition as a clerical officer in the local health centre. She was in extreme pain every day of her working life. 6 months before we were married, she was in a cast from her waist to her neck. She then wore a body moulded brace that went from her waist to the top of her chest. She was pensioned off work at 38 years old, through her medical condition. We have no family. I knew this when I married her. She could not carry a child full term. I loved her (still do) and wanted to spend the rest of my life with her.

What really pisses me off, is the members of her family that come out with the same words every time they ask her how she is. It is normally the same answer she gives. I am in pain. "Oh we will pray for you". They have been saying this for 30+ years. How long does it take for an individual to realise that there is no one out there that can hear those prayers. Nothing ever improves after prayers. After 20 years of marriage an listening to my rants re religion. My Wife is now of the same opinion as I.

She was also diagnosed with a Trigeminal Neuralgia. This is a facial pain that is called the suicide illness.
It is the equivalent of a migraine headache and toothache at the same time. This is someone that has attended church all of her life. Even whilst we were married she attended the churches where we have lived.
She said one day whilst she was in extreme pain, What did I do to deserve this torture. Was I Hitler in a past life and this is pay back.
It is not good to watch the person that you love being in constant pain, this is after all the medication that she takes on a daily basis. The box she has her meds in is a foot square.

She very rarely complains, opting to sleep through the worst days when the pain is unbearable.

Is there a God. If there is, he aint doing much to help those that have stood in his house over the years to worship him.

For the record. There was more chance of some of my relatives being on the roof of the church after dark, looking for lead.

Ian[/quote]

They do this to make themselves feel better, probably due to being incapable of administering any real help. They feel they have to do something but are helpless.
Perhaps they feel more than you think ?

Having said that, it doesn't do you or your wife any good does it.

[rodp]

The questions remain folks

Why the cave paintings showing flying men with wings or helmets and strange flying craft, the absolute accuracy and finish of huge stone blocks and why make images so large you can only see them from the air, who was supposed to see them.

Who, how and why ?

[Hartshot]

Ian,

I hope your wife finds something to significantly relieve her condition and pain levels, very, very soon. Not that it will help her (or you) but, I mean that sincerely.

H

[sunndog]

also why does'nt the very notion of a deity that takes attendance and requires worship worry them
he's s'posed to be omnipressent!...if you worship him HE ALREADY KNOWS!!! even before you are born!

iirc the first 2 commandments are making sure you pay god his due......not very confidant for a god is he

i believe thats why the devil left heaven, because his job of work was to praise god. all day every day......for all eternity, i can see how even an angel would get sick of that!

you got it rod, faith is good proof is baaaad

one of the few fella's to commune with god and be taken seriously was named mohammed.......actually perhaps its best we do lock em up before they cause any bother LMAO


ian, i will never understand how some-one can watch a loved one suffer and continue to beseech an almighty creator god for help
arent we supposed to be god's children?.....how many of you could allow your children to go through what ians wife has if you had the means to cure it?.......what would they say if they did'nt have the "mysterious ways" caveat?

time to lock up the loonies if you ask me......

[Hartshot]

The questions remain folks

Why the cave paintings showing flying men with wings or helmets and strange flying craft, the absolute accuracy and finish of huge stone blocks and why make images so large you can only see them from the air, who was supposed to see them.

Who, how and why ?

Rodders,

You're like a dog with a bone ,buddy !

Are we mererly interperating these painting in the context of what we want to make of them ? We can't explain what the creator was painting, so, we use modern day perceptions of what a "craft" or "being" MIGHT look like. Let's not forget there's no proof or conclusive evidence that an alien has been seen or found and likewise regarding any alien spacecraft.
Is it possible that our modern perception of what the bug-eyed big nogginned baldy tri-suckery-fingered greenish/blueish handsome fellas look like might actually stem from a modern day artist, having seen images of these paintings in the first place copied and called them ALIENS ???

[phoenix]

Hartshot,
Thanks for starting the most enjoyable thread on the forum I can remember, and to everyone else who's posted their thoughts.
It's great we can have this sort of discussion without any personal insults flying (yet!).
There's a guy in the US called PZ Myers who runs a blog calld Pharyngula and if you want to see an eloquent atheist in action really ripping the piss out of the religionistas go here and enjoy
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/
Pretty much all of his biology stuff is way over my head, but anyone who doesn't think that evolution is true (like the creationists and the Intelligent Design mob) get their ar**s reamed here by hard scientific facts almost every day.

Cheers

Bruce